‘Two Dads Defending Democracy’ tour visits Ford School

Content warning: This article contains mentions of gun violence.

About 100 University of Michigan students and community members gathered in the Ford School of Public Policy Friday night to hear two fathers speak about what they believe is the United States’ most urgent dilemma: the inability of the American public to speak across political divides. The event was part of the “Two Dads Defending Democracy” tour hosted by former Congressman Joe Walsh, R-Ill., and gun violence activist Fred Guttenberg. 

Walsh is a former Tea Party conservative and current talk radio personality while Guttenberg is a former businessman who turned to activism after his daughter was murdered in the 2018 Parkland school shooting. As public figures who oppose each other on gun policy, the pair aims to tackle the issue of political polarization by encouraging respectful conversations across the aisle. 

Their conversation was moderated by public policy professor Jonathan Cohn and covered a number of issues, including the role of the media in political polarization, misinformation, gun policy and voting. 

Walsh began the talk by explaining that four years ago his relationship with Guttenberg looked very different. Walsh said the two were combative opponents online, often delving into hateful and petty arguments on X.

“We were where I think most of America is today,” Walsh said. “We went after each other in hateful, ugly ways about an issue, and that’s what too many of us are doing now.” 

One day, Walsh asked Guttenberg if he would consider speaking privately in person, so they could have a respectful conversation about gun policy. From there, the two say they were able to find common ground and developed an unlikely friendship. Now, they’re touring the United States to encourage others — especially young people — to do the same. 

“We see the way people talk to each other, and we see the lack of decency, and we see the lack of civility, all because people have a different difference of opinion,” Guttenberg said. “We want to show people it doesn’t have to be that way.”

Through their conversations, Guttenberg and Walsh were able to agree on certain prevention efforts like enhanced background checks for those under 21 — a practice that became federal law under the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act in 2022. Walsh said once he understood Guttenberg did not want to take away his right to own a gun, he was able to better listen to his perspective. 

“I really opened up and changed some of my thinking on things like background checks and red flag laws that I probably wouldn’t have done without these conversations,” Walsh said. 

Walsh said he is still a steadfast supporter of the Second Amendment. While he supports policies that prevent gun violence, he said he does not think policy alone can completely eliminate acts of gun violence. 

“We have to change and change the gun culture in this country,” Walsh said. “I acknowledge that. But we live in a free society. There are always going to be bad, sick, evil people.” 

Walsh said the goal of conversations across the aisle does not need to be to change anyone’s beliefs or to come to a complete agreement. Instead, he encourages political conservatives like him to avoid caricaturing those with opposing beliefs. 

“Understand where they’re coming from, because if you understand them, you’re going to gain some empathy, and then you won’t be as likely to hate and then we won’t be as likely to be like this (as a country),” Walsh said. 

Citing networks including CNN, Fox News and MSNBC, both Guttenberg and Walsh expressed concerns that television media is exacerbating the issue of polarization. As an online personality and podcast host, Walsh said this type of media inherently tries to spark conflict.

“As a former congressman and a former media guy, we are incentivized to preach to our base and to outrage them and to get them fired up on both sides,” Walsh said. “That’s where the money is. That’s where the ratings are, and if you want to get elected in each party, that’s how you get nominated.”

He cautioned that people should not use the media as an excuse not to do their own work and self-reflection. 

“It’s easy to blame the media,” Walsh said. “It’s easy to blame social media, but this is on us.”

Gutternberg said his friendship with Walsh reflects an important lesson for activists hoping to have a long-term impact. He argued that any policies which alienate one side of an issue can never have a significant impact. 

“If I want to create lasting change in this country around reducing gun violence, it has to include not just guys like me who don’t own guns and want to see less gun violence,” Guttenberg said. “It has to include gun owners if I want it to be a lasting change.”

Walsh and Guttenberg said they were especially troubled by young people living in political bubbles and urged them to overcome fears of conflict or discomfort. 

“There’s a fear among young people in this country to express their point of view and engage with people they disagree with,” Walsh said. “We hear it over and over, and it’s really concerning.” 

LSA senior Peyton Martin, who attended the event, said she wasn’t sure the speakers understood what young people are grappling with when it comes to conversing across the aisle. For her, the issue of transgender rights came to mind as an example where a friendly conversation did not seem realistic.  

“I think it further isolates marginalized people when you prioritize being friendly to people who might be bigoted,” Martin said. “I do think that there’s definitely a place for civil conversation … but I think there’s also a limit.”

Martin said she wondered if Walsh and Gutternberg’s thesis of conversing across the aisle would still hold for individuals who share greater differences. 

“You’re talking about two guys who come from the same perspective in a lot of different ways,” Martin said. “They’re both white men who are married to women with children. They both seem to be upper middle class. They both have similar views on certain issues. And so the fact that they were able to find some common ground, it doesn’t really surprise me.”

 Daily Staff Reporter Amanda Venclovaite Pirani can be reached at amandavp@umich.edu.

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